Luke: I'm here with Dounia, a Forensic Science postgraduate student here at the University of Derby. Dounia, how are you?
Dounia: I'm not bad, thank you. How are you?
Luke: Fantastic, thank you. So thanks for being here. First of all. And just to start off with, what would you say are the advantages of studying Forensic Science at the University of Derby?
Dounia: There's so many. I mean, if you want to start with the way, the way the course is. I mean, first of all, the course itself is accredited by the Chartered Society of Forensic Science. So the quality of teaching already, you know, we hit all the marks to be accredited by them. But I think it's just how the course is laid out. I think for anyone who's interested in forensics, even if they didn't necessarily do a forensic based, you know, subject before they come onto university, you kind of get a taster of so many different subjects, ranging from chemistry to biology to anthropology, the study of bones, entomology, study of insects. So you get such a big range and kind of a taster of so many different things for you to then kind of progress into second year where you get to choose different modules and choose what you're most interested in. And then when you go into third year to then work on your independent project.
Luke: Goodness. Okay, so just off of the back of that, sorry, what kind of topics are covered on the course?
Dounia: So it changes from year to year. But the modules that I used to do ranged from crime scene analysis or crime scene investigation. We also had analytical chemistry, we had forensic chemistry, we had molecular biology. So you get like, like I said, mentioned a taster of basically everything for you to then decide what you want to specialise in.
Luke: My goodness. And there was, so you've just completed your undergraduate course and that was in forensic science.
Dounia: It was.
Luke: Congratulations.
Dounia: Thank you.
Luke: And, whilst you were on that course, were there any kind of specialist facilities that you got to learn in?
Dounia: Absolutely. So the specialist facilities, one of the main reasons why I came to this university. So I came here for an open day myself and I got to see everything that the university has got to offer. So the main one, I think that the biggest thing we've got is we've got an entire house that the university decided to buy for us specifically. Very nice of them. It's a house, they've, all the rooms, they look like normal rooms but they get to stage crimes in there and we have to go in full white suits, face masks, shoe covers, exactly what you see on CSI TV.
And then you'll go in there and they'll explain what's happened, different types of crimes. So it can range anything from a break in to an assault to even a drug related crime. And then you'll have to go and kind of, I guess, pretend, I guess. I think the best part is even if you mess up it's okay. There's microphones in each room to tell you 'maybe you shouldn't be touching that', you know, so it's a lot more relaxed than if you had it in real life but that's just one of the facilities.
We also have wet rooms, wet chemistry rooms, where you get to go and look at different chemical analysis, anything from makeup analysis. So you can get to look at like different brands and like the different components of that makeup. That is something that we look at. Anything from soil trace analysis. If you stepped on soil at some point, we could probably tell where you were, not to, you know.
Luke: I'm getting slightly worried, yeah.
Dounia: No, and we also have biology room, specialist biology rooms, with all, with specialist instruments in them. We have a courtroom. So one of the main things about forensic science is presenting your evidence in court. As scary as it sounds, it's only a mock court. So again, it's all practice. And you know, that's one of the big facilities we've got on our campus called One Friar Gate Square. And then we've got an entomology room, an insect room basically.
Luke: Okay, okay.
Dounia: So if you're not a fan of insects, maybe you shouldn't...
Luke: I'll steer clear.
Dounia: Yeah, but again that's one of the many, many specialist facilities we've got at the university.
Luke: My goodness. So quite a few.
Dounia: Quite a few, I didn't even mention all of them.
Luke: Wow, okay. That's quite impressive. Thank you. So what can students on your course typically expect to graduate with?
Dounia: So the different skills, the different skills you could get, there's so many different transferable skills. I mean, they make you kind of, within your course you'll have group projects where you get to learn how to, you know, team working skills, your leadership skills, presentation skills.
They, they, some modules would require you to kind of present a presentation, or a poster or a PowerPoint. It also gets you thinking into more a research based mindset, looking at different literature to then present these presentations, to then create these posters.
So not just having, you know, having to be not just being taught how to use these different specialist equipment but also having these specialist skills of you know network with colleagues. They, they teach you all of that, especially the, our academics. They treat us like colleagues. They don't treat you like students.
Luke: Yes.
Dounia: If you ever need anything they're just an email away and they can kind of, kind of get you used to that mindset of networking as well. But there's so many different skills as well. Critical thinking skills is a big one that we, we've learnt here at the university.
Luke: Nice. My goodness. I can imagine it's much more conducive to good work and development if you've got that much of a better relationship with your lecturers, that's fantastic.
Dounia: Absolutely, 100%.
Luke: And will students on your course, do they typically get to do placements and if so, like where? If you don't mind me asking.
Dounia: Yeah, so the way our placements work, it's after your second year and before your third year. So you decide to do that. You don't have to go for it if you don't want to. And I think that one of the biggest points that we like to push across is that we do have links with so many different facilities, I guess.
Luke: Yeah.
Dounia: One of the biggest partnerships that we've got is with EMSOU, so that's East Midlands Specialist Operational Unit. It's a police force and then we will give you those contacts. We cannot guarantee you a placement, but we will give you the contacts for you to then go, go out for an interview. Show them your skills, show them your CV. We've got so many different facilities at the university to help you with this kind of things, with interview skills, with CV making skills.
Luke: Yes.
Dounia: That's just not even relating to the course, just the university in general. But that's one of them. So EMSOU is one of them where you get to go. My friend just came back from placement and he got to look at the analysis of a kind of data analysis. So he was looking at CCTV cameras. He wasn't allowed to tell me much, obviously, the sense of working with the police but that's just one of the placements.
I had another friend again, speaking of networking with the academics, so one of our academics has a close link with one of the museums in, I want to say in Nottingham, and they managed to get my friend a placement over there because her interest is in anthropology, bones, and she managed to get a placement there and she got to work with bones basically. She got to organise them, label them, everything else an anthropologist gets to do.
So that's just one of the biggest advantages of having such a good relationship with academics and stuff, a student relationship.
Luke: Absolutely. So you've kind of like touched on my next question, which is fantastic. So yeah, academics kind of, did they have those kind of links to different research and industries?
Dounia: Absolutely. In our course, genuinely one of the most impressive things about our course is that the range of, of the skills and links that our academics have, they're so diverse in what they're specialised in.
So for example, some of our academics are specialised in toxicology, some of them are specialised in crime scene analysis. We have, and we've got staff from all across the world as well. For example, one of our academics has come all the way from Brazil, and she's managed to get students a, I want to say two week placement at Brazil at their forensic investigation workplace, it's a two week placement over there. She managed to get that because she's got links, I mentioned the link with the museum. There's links with different universities with their postgraduate courses. We've got links with different pharmaceutical places. Everyone specialises in their own area.
And genuinely, all you need to do is go up to them and ask them about their different links. And they're more than happy, more than happy to let you know what they are. They're more than happy to get you these links. That's what they want. They want you to go out in the real world. They want you to go out and kind of learn what you did at university and then apply it to the real world. It makes, it makes the university look good. It makes them look good, it makes us look good. So why wouldn't they?
Luke: My goodness, that's incredible. And yeah, get to travel as well which is a massive bonus.
Dounia: Absolutely.
Luke: That's... wow. Goodness. So can students also, can they get involved within, with research projects also?
Dounia: Yeah, so in you're second year you're required to do a 30 hour work placement and within that they offer staff internship. And I actually managed to get my hands on one of them and it was with one of our academics who specialises in entomology, which is the study of bugs, basically. And her research involved looking at blow flies and their different reproduction, reproductive rates in different seasons. And she had a freezer filled with flies and my job was to go in and pin them.
Luke: Pin them?
Dounia: Pin them.
Luke: Can you elaborate slightly more?
Dounia: So, on Styrofoam, foam, just pieces of Styrofoam. Pin them with pins. And then from that we then got to analyse them. And then, I mean, it's an amazing subject entomology. We get to, you can get to look at an estimation, estimated time of death using flies. So it is a really important part of forensics.
But thanks to the staff internship I managed to go grab all those skills without even having to, you know, tried different contacts, contacting different places. It was right there, right in front of me, and I managed to do it.
Luke: That's rather impressive, my goodness. So what would you say, because of course you're finished now, so what would you say were the highlights of your undergraduate career?
Dounia: I think it's personal development. I've already touched on transferable skills that you get, but even what I'm doing right now with you. Kind of this whole communication, this whole process, presentation skills, public speaking skills, all these transferable skills that I got from my course have very much helped me. It's just this personal development from if you look at the development that I've made from first year all the way now to now being able to do my postgraduate degree.
I am, definitely built on self confidence. It kind of teaches you because the staff, the academic know that once you come into this course, you've never done this type of analysis before. You've never, you know, when was the last time you've analysed blood splatter? It's not-
Luke: Yesterday.
Dounia: Exactly. So it's, you know, it's not as common as some other courses might be.
Luke: Yeah.
Dounia: So because of this, they're so aware that all of us are kind of, there's this whole new thing but they're so focused on building this personal development for you to then exit the university, to then be confident in yourself and in your skills.
A lot of our, our practical sessions are mainly just to teach you how to use these instruments, and they're so happy for you to then come back. If you ever do get a job interview and you need to kind of, refresher, they've told us multiple times 'just give us an email and we're more than happy to come and show you how things work again'. But that's kind of their main goal is to, to work on this personal development for you to exit the university, having all these skills and confidence in all these skills. Anything from, like I said, using these specialist instruments to just normal transferable skills like presentation, presenting skills, communication, teamwork. Just working in, you know, together as a group in general.
So I think that's my biggest highlight, my own personal development. Not to sound, you know, selfish but it's just, you know.
Luke: Wow. So, kind of off the back of that. So when you were considering going into your first year or considering making an application, do you think you would have believed your future self if you'd kind of told, you know, told her what you had been through in those three years?
Dounia: Absolutely not. I was genuinely one of the most shy person you'll ever meet in your entire life. If I went back and told my younger self before I was about to apply that this is going to be the best decision you'll ever make, I wouldn't believe I'd be like 'how are you even talking to me?' you know? 'How are you even confident enough at talking to me?'
Honestly, this whole university experience, just as a whole, it's been so amazing for my own personal development, but also being able to have all these different skills that I feel like weren't that highlighted before I came to university. But no, definitely I would surprise myself.
Luke: Yeah?
Dounia: Very, very much.
Luke: Wow, okay. And what kind of careers can graduates typically go on to do? And if you don't mind me asking, what are you considering going onto after your postgraduate course?
Dounia: Yeah, no. So there's like I said, because there's so many different topics that you can go for when you're going into this course. There's so many optional modules that you could go into. And then when you get to do your own independent research, you kind of get to learn something about yourself that you didn't even realise you had, what you're really interested in and that will then lead you to the career.
Luke: Yes.
Dounia: Forensics is quite broad when it comes to different things that you can choose from, which I personally liked. It made me kind of consider so many different options for me to then decide on what I enjoy the most. And currently, it's anything to do with toxicology, basically, or I guess drug analysis.
Luke: What is toxicology again? Just out of curiosity there.
Dounia: Sorry?
Luke: What was toxicology again? I know the word.
Dounia: Toxicology is the study of like drugs and poisons, anything that can harm your body through substances.
Luke: Goodness.
Dounia: Yes. I think my interest lies on the analysis part of it.
But yeah, like I said, there's so many different career paths that you can take. It just depends on your own personal interests. And you'll discover it, I promise. Like I said, they allow you to explore so much of the course. By the end of it, you will have what you're most interested in.
My friend, a very close friend of mine, she decided, she originally started with chemistry and now she's set on being a fingerprint expert. We have an academic who is a fingerprinting expert, and that's what she's set on. All her interest is now focused on that.
And that's, I think that's also one of the biggest advantages of this, of this course is they're able to kind of lead you to the right direction of what you want to go to.
Luke: So there are that many avenues?
Dounia: Absolutely. And then you get to kind of have a taster of all of them for you to then decide that, yeah, this is, this is what I want.
Luke: My goodness. Okay, Dounia, thank you so much for being here.
Dounia: Thank you.
Luke: That's fantastic. And best of luck with your postgraduate.
Dounia: Thank you very much.
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